header 1
header 2
header 3

Message Forum

Welcome to the Seoul American High School Message Forum.

The message forum is an ongoing dialogue between classmates. There are no items, topics, subtopics, tho you may wish to visit our political post preferences at http://www.sahs-reunion.com/Politics-and-the-Forum.htm.

Clicking on the "Post Response" button sends your post to EVERYONE (thousands) and most get a notification email.

Consider instead of a forum message sending a private email message by clicking on the classmates name on the forum post or from the classmates profile.
 


 
go to bottom 
  Post Message
  
    Prior Page
 Page  
Next Page      

05/06/21 01:54 PM #409    

 

Joan Tipka (Fisher) (1982)

I was one of the "Embassy Housing" dwellers from 1977-1979.  My dad was actually a Major attached to JUSMAG-K, so although he was Army, we lived in Embassy Housing and had the benefits of the Army and the Embassy.  I actually had to walk to school.  Luckily we lived only a short walk from the gate to enter south post. If I remember we would cut through taking a shortcut behind the beauty shop? It's been over 40 years so my memory may be sketchy.  I think that is why I was so skinny. All the walking I did around post.  I used to walk to the Officer's club for lunch sometime's.  I really miss the times spent living oversea's.  When I came back stateside after 10+ years of overseas life, I had a culture shock.  It was a whole different environment. I missed the military bases I grew up on as a child so much.  I ended up joining the Navy and serving 20 years.  Now I am enjoying retirement in Military City USA with three military bases around.


05/07/21 10:08 AM #410    

Hansang Bae (1984)

Joan,

yeah, it's a short walk.  Come in to gate 17 (I think?) from Embassy compound, go down to the golf club, go diagonally across the parking lot, go down the short hill, hit Shoppette, O's Wives Club thrift store, through the SnackBar (Smuggler Burger, anyone? :)) and you're at the school. 

 

As for speration of quarters by rank, is that any different in civvy world?  Upper East side folks have their posh homes, private schools, you have middle class negihborhoods and poorer neighborhoods.  It may be more codified and structured in the military, but it had to be. After all, it was always "Mission First, Men second"  Well, in the Infantry anyway.

 

But this triggered a memory.  I *HATED* the sign as you entered Embassy compound that had "No Unit Singing" or something to that effect.  Essentially, no singing jodies.  That irked me. So I crawled up to the sign at 2AM and spray painted the "NO" part.  I did that 3 times because they kept painting it back on.  Even though the guard shack was quite a distance away, that spraying sounded like I was presssure washing the sign.  LOL

 

EDIT:  Wikipedia for "8th army yongsan" has the map of Cp. Coiner, North and South post.  Enjoy the walk down virtual memory lane!


05/07/21 11:41 AM #411    

Katherine Alfsen (1980)

I am trying to remember our house number, but it's escaping me.  To get to my house, I recall taking an immediate right after the Embassy housing gate and going straight until the road curved left.  After that curve, I would take the first right and my house was aobut halfway down.. I do remember finding some propaganda leaflets in the yard one morning.  I can't recall if it was the NK or the US that dropped them  Ha ha

I also have my own personal "shed" there...It had the only key and Dad never asked what was in there...for three years!.  Lucky for me!  I remember one of my friends had a boyfriend at Camp Coiner and bought me a WHOLE CASE of Olympia beer,  I carried that from Coiner to my house with a jacket over it...that was a HUMP!  We drank it warm/hot as that shed was not wired for electricity..  Ha ha


05/07/21 12:09 PM #412    

Jarvis Levelle Brown (1983)

Hannam Village, is where the Inlisted Men"s Children Lived. It was Fun!! But, it was Pretty Clear, WE were the outsiders! (Some called us a "gang")

R.I.P. to my friend Robert Ward!


05/07/21 02:07 PM #413    

James Hall (1966)

James (Mike) Hall class of 1966. Since I am not typically reading and responding to such things  -remind me if I am not confering to protocol. I have become interested lately as the letters have become more diverse and I am struck by the generational changes I see. I came from California to finish my last semester of high school at SAHS. Since I had taken almost every class needed for graduation, already my school schedule was limited to a few things like typing - can't remember much. I spent most of my time at the gym immersed in Tae Kwan Do. My Dad was an air force fighter pilot and was with  the embassy to introduce a new plane to the ROK air force. They would train about 6 months (I think in Suwon) and he would then take the class to Viet Nam for actual combat missions.  He said Viet Nam was the worst mess he had ever fought in (WW II, Korea). A complete mystery as to what anyone else was doing, no unified plan. He urged me not to get involved however he loved flying combat in state -of-the art planes. But he said unless you are a colonel in charge of a fighter squadron your choices are bleak. Well as it happened, I had been accepted to Uni Cal Santa Barbara pending spring grades. I found out in August that my acceptance was rejected since I had graduated from an unaccredited high school - SAHS. I stayed and worked for 8th army in an underground bunker running a printing press for secret docs. All Ok. Loved Korea and the few friends I made on all sides of the fence. Also the mobile life you all know of moving every 3/4 years was normal to my family. Finally went to college and found a way to retirement.


05/07/21 03:58 PM #414    

 

Todd Himes (1980)

 

I went to SAHS in 1977 and 1978. While I can't dispute that the Garrison housing wasn't by military rank. My father was an US Army officer, we lived on South Post on a hill to the right of Collier Field/Gym. What I loved most about my time in Korea was to my memory no one that I ever interacted with student or teacher ever seemed to care who your father was or where you lived...it was more about who "you" were and how "you" treated others.

I am sure there were some clicks but for the most part the cool thing about living on an overseas Post was all the different personnel and prospectives... people simply didn't waste time on petty discrimination and BS. 

 

 


05/08/21 08:37 AM #415    

Hansang Bae (1984)

I thnk brats are better adjusted than your avg kid.  The concept of staying put from birth to death is so foreign to me.  I know people in Long Island who've never left Long Island.  Very weird to me.  Also, the first time I went to a civvy movie theater, I stood up when the lights dimmed.  My friends were looking at me like "WTH are you doing???"

Another time, we were vacationing in Maine and at 1700, the National Anthem played.  I went straight to Reveille mode and had to remind myself that I didn't have to render a hand salute. But I had to explain to my family that paying respect is important.

Then I took my family to Korea. I took the kids (incl nephews/nieces) to UN Cemetary in Busan and had them read the plaques of the War Dead.  18, 19, 20, 21 year old boys and men who died during the Korean war.  I explained how the US is the only country that bring the dead home.  And why they had to pay respect.  Why 50K+ US troops, UN and countless ROK paid with their lives so that we can enjoy what we have today. 

Another funny story. One day, we were talking (right after OEF or OIR, can't remember) and she was shcoked that I was still in IRR.  And I remember telling her, 'Don't worry honey, they don't need out of shape Infantry officers, they need staff pukes so I'll never be recalled" Then two weeks later, she called me hyperventialting.  She had to sign for a certified letter from Dept of Army.  She was freaking out.  I came home, and I opened the letter.  It was the OPM (milpercen?) breach.  If I'm honest, there was a part of me that was little disapointed.

Then about a year later, a coworker called me around 6PM.  He knew I was still in the office. The was an NG Armor officer. And he told me his unit just got activated.  We talked a long time about how he was going to miss his 3 year old girl. And I told him she'll never know you were gone. That I'd rather be gone when she's 3 than 13.  And how Armor was going to be a walk in the park after the absolute air dominance.  How we both admitted as Combat Arms that it's a little excititng.  And how we could never tell that to civillians because they'd never understand.  Three days into being in-country, he was killed when a grenade was thrown into the tent he was sharing with the outgoing CO (he was taking over for him).  I was gobsmacked. 

The one thing I'll end with.  It's not a political statement, it's just a point of view.  People who complain and moan about every aspect of American life are the ones who've never set foot in a poor country. They have no perspective of what it means to suffer to *that* level.  What was it Kruchev (?) said at a UN speech once?  "your homelss live in *their cars"  Growing up in Korea, I didn't have running hot water. Didn't have a toilet, just an outhouse.  No toilet paper, just newspaers and magazines. You spent the time loosening the fibers (no pun inteded) so they could be used as softer toilet paper.  You raised vegetables and chickens for food.  I remember getting vaccinated with a needled that the nurse would dip in alcohol and put it to a candle to sterilize.  And even at 7 years, you knew it was going to hurt like hell if you weren't the first 5 or so people as the needle dulled with each shot.  LOL. I wish there was a way for me to teleport some of these people to a poor country.  I'm proud that Korea went from the penultimate poor country in the world to what it is today.  But I will never forget the men and boys that died to make that happen.  How Task Force Smith had to carry out a DLIC mission.  We talked about it at IOBC in an acadmic sense. What it means to sentence people to death so that others may live.  (DLIC == Detachment Left In Contact).  And Task Force Smith had to actually do it. I wish there was a way for me to have the people experience it.  Then maybe everyone will take a breath and realize that "you know what, we have it pretty damn good and we have more in common than not"  Everything is relative. 

 

Sorry for the rambiling...


05/08/21 08:56 AM #416    

Sherron "Sam" Dix (Lawson) (1961)

To Hansang Bae: You said a mouthful, and said it better than I could have. I agree with you that many folks don't appreciate what we have here in USA, even with all the societal troubles afoot right now. Military brat life was a gift of exposure to the wide world. Wouldn't take a million $$$ for mine!

Sam 1961

05/08/21 10:56 PM #417    

Young Do Kim (1984)

When I joined the Army as an enlisted infantry soldier, I accepted the risk that I may be sent off to a war and die. I think it is a waste of time philosophizing what it means to be a soldier. Soldiers go to war and war kills soldiers. Syllogism. Should I grieve for all those who had gone before me defending this great nation. Of course not , rather we must celebrate their lives knowing that they died honorably defending their beliefs and values.

05/09/21 08:20 AM #418    

Lyn Shaw (1962)

I've been reading more and more of the posts lately, especially since speaking with Sherron Dix Lawson ("Sam", to me) by phone. The Brats site prompted us to reconnect after being separated  for perhaps 20 years 

I was in Seoul for my sophomore and junior years- 1959-61. SAHS was pretty new. My father  wasn't military- he worked at USOM (United States Operations Mission) a precursor of USAID.

Of all the experiences in my life ( and I'll be 77 on D Day) those of my time in Korea, of SAHS and of close friends I made during those years have been the most pivotal and lasting. I send my best to all of you. Our lives may have gone in different directions since Korea, but we will always be family.

Lyn Shaw

 


05/09/21 09:28 AM #419    

Young Do Kim (1984)

Please reach out to me for information if you are thinking about relocating/retiring and/or starting a business in Mexico. I will be more than glad to share my experience with you and get you all the information you need.

05/09/21 10:27 AM #420    

 

Todd Himes (1980)

 To Lyn Shaw
Well Said!! Thanks for posting. I feel the same way, my time at SAHS and Yongsan were amazing and it really all comes down to the people and small town vibe. I was there from the summer of 76 to 78...great times. It must have been exciting to be there from the start. Todd 

 

 

 


05/09/21 05:19 PM #421    

Jarvis Levelle Brown (1983)

I am Conceited, and I don't have any reason to be!


05/09/21 05:45 PM #422    

Young Do Kim (1984)

Hello Jarvis. RIP Robert Ward '84.

05/09/21 09:25 PM #423    

Young Do Kim (1984)

There is no one more grateful to this country than I. I am a "war baby" with a name (My maternal grandfather's surname) that does not fit the face. I grew up in abject poverty in Korea with my grandmother until the age of 10. My biological dad was an American soldier who had his fling with an innocent 21 year old Korean girl, who at the time was working as a secretary at G1/2nd ID in Dongducheon. Her dream was to save enough to pursue her higher education in US(My mother, bless her heart, has her masters degree and retired as GS-14 from CDC or Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, GA). He went to Vietnam and never returned, leaving an innocent 22 year old girl alone and pregnant. Growing up, I recall Korean kids and adults calling me "honhyeur", "jabjong" or "ainoko"...a mixed breed..a mongrel. I did not think much of it as a kid, not knowing what it really meant to be mixed in a closed society that frowned upon and stigmatized people like me and tens of thousands of Amerasians like me, who had been abandoned and forgotten. I am a lucky few who made it to the US and often wondered where my life would be had I remained in Korea. I finally met the man who had abandoned my pregnant mother (1965) for the first time in 2001. He had an illustrious military career having risen to the highest echelon as an officer in US Army JAG (36 years) and as a civilian at Pentagon and Justice Department(22 years). He made the front page of Army Times when he retired in 2018 with 58 years of Federal Service and had his best Army buddy, Virginia state senator Dick Black, speak at his retirement ceremony.

On that fateful day when we met, he showed no remorse or regret. I have not talked or seen him since. But what about tens of thousands of people like me who have been abandoned and forgotten and living on the fringes of society (high school graduation rate less than 20%) not only in Korea but in Vietnam, Japan, Philippines and other parts of the world? They will never get to enjoy their birthright...the life they were entitled to..as an Americans.

05/09/21 11:05 PM #424    

Young Do Kim (1984)

.

05/10/21 07:48 AM #425    

Lyn Shaw (1962)

Young Do Kim: I so admire your courage in speaking out about an aspect of mlitary life that has disgusted me for a long time. There is much about the mllitary that is commendable, but when I lived in Korea I  became well aware that that some U.S. soldiers, for their own temporary pleasure, took advantage of innocent Korean girls .

Despite her situation, your mother overcame obstacles to attain a high GS status, a triumph. You, yourself, despite your father's lack of integrity iwhen years later he refused to be accountable for his actions as a young soldier, are doing your best to put a stop to the hateful practice that was your unfortunate beginning.

I wish you peace and a  brighter future!.

Lyn Shaw '62

 

I


05/10/21 08:33 AM #426    

 

Patrick Camblin (1974)

For Katherine Alfsen (1980) and others who what to see what Yongsan looked like from the air prior to developments over the last decade and more, try downloading the free application called "Google Earth Pro", expose the toolbar (select 'view > toolbar' from the menu), and use the "Historical Imagery" slider to slide back the years. Google Earth has imagery back to 1985 and many years in between then and now, though for Yongsan, details don't stand out until the 2002 images ;-)

 


05/10/21 09:30 AM #427    

 

Dennis Martin (1979)

Young Do Kim...I await your book...yours is a story that should be written.

05/11/21 11:12 AM #428    

 

Patrick Camblin (1974)

Thank you for sharing your story, Young Do Kim (1984). Yours had to have been among the hardest rows to plow, and I hope things have gotten better in what appears to me at least to be a more "enlightened", albeit far from perfect world.  I'm glad to hear of your mother's successes, and hope they conveyed to you.  God bless and keep you in all you do.


05/11/21 12:08 PM #429    

Arthur (Randy) Lee (1962)

Young Do Kim and Lyn shaw
Looking at life in Korea now, it can be easy to forget how precarious life was for most Koreans in the years after the war. I was there from 1959 - 62, so I didn't see the worst of it, but what I did see was still pretty desperate. Efforts to reforest the country were constantly undermined by people cutting down the plantings for firewood. On cold winter nights, the poorest sometimes froze to death on the streets of Seoul. We were Embassy and lived in a small compound in the city, so saw some of this. Survival sometimes took precedence over self respect and conventional morality. Many soldiers had more or less temporary girlfriends. I remember the orderly line of Korean women that stretched all around the block of the officers' hotel in Seoul, women waiting patiently for the opportunity to solicit an American. There was nothing wanton about this, the women were doing it for survival, not only their own survival, but also for that of their families, often their husbands and children.
One of the themes of the Students' Revolution was a repudiation of what they saw as the immorality of their parents' generation and a call for the return to strict, traditional morality. They were, to my mind, too hard on their parents, who had done what they had to do to survive, but that moral shift marked what I think was a decisive change towards the new Korea that was emerging.
That backlash was, I think, indiscriminate and often the victims were the children of those relationships. Kim's experience, I am sure, had more to do with the reaction against the "whatever it takes for us to survive" mentality than anything to do with his mother's seduction. As so often happens, it is the innocent who suffer the most.

05/11/21 09:36 PM #430    

Young Do Kim (1984)

Intellectual masturbation of self-righteous? So Korean woman = woman with needs, woman with needs = seductress and ergo Korean woman = seductress or Jimmy Swaggert = pastor, Jimmy Swaggert = fornicator, therefore pastor = fornicator. Brain Fart!!!

I was only calling for repudiation of those living with impunity. They should have known better than to exploit the vulnerable. Didn't their preachers teach them any better? Growing up in Georgia, my spiritual leaders were Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jerry Farwell(until he called Teletubby Tinky Winky a gay role model and made my daughter cry), and Jimmy Swaggert, the faces of Christianity. I thought about going to a seminary, Amen! Hallelujah! Holy Trinity!, (looking back, I wanted to cloak my insecurity as a person and more importantly as a man,for not quite measuring up, literally) because I felt that God had ordained and chosen me to propagate the divine wisdom imparted upon me thru Holy Spirit and save the blind who gave into the bodily temptations of this world from perdition but then....It dawned on me that I was a descendant of Maria Magdalena..the seductress.. and was not worthy of pastoring and shepherding the blind to Kingdom of Heaven. "Qui sinne peccatto est vestrum primus in illam lapidem mittat", Amen.

05/12/21 09:06 AM #431    

Katherine Alfsen (1980)

THank you Patrick Camblin (1974) for the GE Pro tip...that is QUITE amazing to see those differences over time.


05/12/21 12:40 PM #432    

Arthur (Randy) Lee (1962)

Young Do Kim, I hope that your last post was not a response to mine, though I suppose it must have been. What you described sounded to me like a "Madam Butterfly" situation with different expectations on both sides, especially as regards the depth of commitment. I assumed that your father was aware that he had little long-term commitment and thus I felt that he had seduced your mother. Your mother sounds wonderful, a strong and brave woman.
When you described the prejudice you felt growing up, I commented only to describe what I saw as the Korean social background to that prejudice, not as anything relating directly to your mother.
The first girl I ever really fell in love with was a Korean I met in my senior year while teaching conversational English at a small language school in Seoul. It was the real thing on both our parts, though it never went physically beyond a few tentative kisses. When I left for the US, she and her family came to the airport to see me off. All of which is by way of saying that I do understand a little about love across those boundaries. Not having found a way to have maintained that relationship and reunited with her is one of the genuine regrets of my life.
Your theological history stunned me. It's clearly been quite a journey and, by the sound of it, a very painful one, especially since so much was based on the actions of other people rather than on your own. Your own goodness and worth should never have been in question, any more than God's love for you. Fortunately, it sounds as though you have come through well and are in a good place.
Again, my apologies for the hurt I have caused. It was not intended.

05/15/21 04:40 PM #433    

Douglas Schultz (1989)

Hi - My first post here but wanted to recommend a great new book https://dmzforgottenwar.com/ if interested.  Korea was a big part of many of our lives; this book highlights the events that led to the Korean War up to Post-War modern Korea.  Lots of pictures and illustrations; significant US Military coverage and contribution.

Know the author's brother who's based out of Seattle and unfortunately a Husky; Go Cougs! 

In any case, thought I'd share a meaningful book. 
Doug Schultz
Class '89


go to top 
  Post Message
  
    Prior Page
 Page  
Next Page